fluff rating: 9.9 .
target demographic: 12-16 yrs old .
first off a disclaimer: i in no way advocate actual graffiti or vandalism of any house of worship, even a kh.
Ok, here's another idea.
VARIOUS MESSAGES LIKE: Freeminds.org
LOCATION: Every 10th or 15th paper towel in the bathroom.
You'd probably be safest if you had a key to the hall for this one so you could set it up discretely.
If someone was in there by themselves, they might just take the towel with them for future reference.
Open Mind
fluff rating: 9.9 .
target demographic: 12-16 yrs old .
first off a disclaimer: i in no way advocate actual graffiti or vandalism of any house of worship, even a kh.
FLUFF RATING: 9.9
TARGET DEMOGRAPHIC: 12-16 YRS OLD
FIRST OFF A DISCLAIMER: I IN NO WAY ADVOCATE ACTUAL GRAFFITI OR VANDALISM OF ANY HOUSE OF WORSHIP, EVEN A KH. THINK OF THIS AS PUNCHING A BAG VS. A PERSON.
MY APOLOGIES TO THE LADIES OF THE BOARD ON MY FIRST TWO INSTALLMENTS OF THE "SANITY TIPS" SERIES. I HOPE YOU ENJOYED THEM, BUT THEY PRETTY MUCH COULD ONLY BE IMPLEMENTED BY THE BROTHERS. TIP 1, SINGING WITH AN ELVIS, DEAN MARTIN OR COUNTRY WESTERN ACCENT. TIP 2, SCREWING UP IN THE SOUND DEPT JUST SHORT OF GETTING FIRED.
BUT BOTH GENDERS CAN PARTICIPATE IN TIP #3: VIRTUAL GRAFFITI!!! NEXT TIME YOU FIND YOURSELF ZONING OUT ON THE BACK OF SOMEONE'S BEE-HIVE HAIRDO, OR REALLY BAD COMB-OVER AT THE SALON DEL REINO, TRY THIS TIP INSTEAD. YOUR HOMEWORK ASSIGNMENT (IF YOU CHOOSE TO ACCEPT IT) IS TO COME UP WITH A FANTASY GRAFFITI MESSAGE TO BE PLACED SOMEWHERE AT THE VIRTUAL KINGDUMB HALL IN YOUR MIND. (FANTASY RIGHT? VIRTUAL RIGHT? OK, THAT'S THE LAST TIME I'M GOING TO EMPHASIZE THAT PART BUT WE'LL SEE IF SOMEONE STILL FLAMES ME SAYING I'M ADVOCATING VANDALISM, WHICH, FOR THE RECORD, I'M NOT!!!)
ALRIGHT, IF YOU WANT TO PLAY, YOU'VE GOT TO DO TWO THINGS:
1. COME UP WITH YOUR GRAFFITI MESSAGE &
2. TELL US WHERE & HOW IT WOULD BE PRESENTED (THIS IS KEY)
FOR EXAMPLE:
ITEM 1 MESSAGE: "WATCHTOWER SUCKS"
DOESN'T DO A WHOLE LOT FOR ME.
BUT, COMPLETE YOUR ASSIGNMENT AND INCLUDE ITEM 2:
LOCATION/PRESENTATION/SETUP: BLACK FELT TIP MARKER, WRITTEN ON A PIECE OF PAPER AND TAPED TO A VACUUM CLEANER IN THE MAINTENANCE CLOSET. NOW "WATCHTOWER SUCKS" GETS AT LEAST A COUPLE OF POINTS FOR CLEVERNESS DOESN'T IT? OK, MAYBE ONLY ONE POINT. ;)
NOW BEFORE I THROW THIS THING WIDE OPEN FOR ALL YOU MORE CREATIVE FOLK THAN I, I'VE GOT A COUPLE OF LOCATION/PRESENTATION IDEAS THAT YOU CAN JUST ADD A MESSAGE TO IF YOU WANT.
THESE LOCATIONS ARE BOTH RATHER JAMES BONDISH, BUT JUST PLAY ALONG AND PRETEND THAT IT WOULD WORK. THEY BOTH INVOLVE THE PODIUM.
FIRST, YOU HAVE A HIDDEN PIECE OF NOTE PAPER THAT YOU CAN MAKE APPEAR ON THE TOP SURFACE OF THE PODIUM BY REMOTE CONTROL SO THAT ONLY THE SPEAKER CAN SEE IT (AS IF HE'D JUST HAD IT HANDED TO HIM BY THE ATTENDANT). TO HIM IT JUST APPEARS OUT OF NOWHERE. WHAT WOULD IT SAY? HOW WOULD YOU USE THIS SET UP?
SECOND, YOU HAVE A HIDDEN, ROLLED-UP SIGN ATTACHED TO THE FRONT OF THE PODIUM THAT WILL UNROLL & BE VISIBLE TO THE ENTIRE AUDIENCE WHEN YOU RELEASE IT BY REMOTE CONTROL. WHAT WOULD IT SAY? WHEN/HOW WOULD YOU USE IT?
OK, HERE'S WHAT MY BORED BRAIN CAME UP WITH AT THE LAST MEETING. YOU WAIT FOR THE MOST UPTIGHT, HOLIER-THAN-THOU, SEXUALLY REPRESSED, OLD-FART ELDER TO BE GIVING A TALK. A COUPLE MINUTES INTO HIS DRONING YOU DEPLOY THE HIDDEN PIECE OF NOTE PAPER WHICH SAYS:................(DRUM ROLL PLEASE) ........."YOU'RE ZIPPER'S DOWN"
NOW, YOU WATCH HIM LIKE A HAWK BECAUSE YOU KNOW HE'S GONNA CHECK SOONER OR LATER. WHEN YOU SEE HIM START TO CASUALLY MAKE HIS MOVE, YOU DEPLOY THE ROLLED-UP BANNER WHICH SAYS:
"ME SO HORNY!!"
ALRIGHT, I WARNED YOU IN ADVANCE THAT THE TARGET DEMOGRAPHIC FOR THIS POST WAS 12-16 YRS.
ANY OTHER GRAFFITI IDEAS OUT THERE?
LET'S HEAR 'EM. (REMEMBER MESSAGE & LOCATION/SET UP)
OPEN (slightly bored) MIND
ok, first off, please don't shoot the messenger here.
the dateline show on jws hiding pedophiles was one of several "defining moments" in my process of questioning "the truth".
it disgusted me.
Thanks again everyone for all your input. It really helps me keep things in perspective.
Scully:
Please bear with me while I try to rewire decades of Borg-designed circuitry in my brain. In re-reading this thread, I can't believe I just blew off your "No lapel badge" and "No Brother/Sister Title" so quickly. Sorry about that. Even though I think I'm free, I know I'm only part way there. I just went into automatic dub-think. On a second look, I agree with those ideas & will bring them up with my wife at the right time. The whole "new ones wouldn't understand" argument is bull. New may already notice that some at the conventions aren't wearing lapel badges and would probably just lump molestors in with other new ones who don't have badges. As for the "Mr./Ms." for of address in the K Hall, they would get the same impression initially.
Dawg:
Thanks for your advice, but my crystal ball says that if I get out now I'll probably be looking at a messy divorce complete with a child custody fight and be painted as the "raving apostate" and have almost zero influence on my kids. My plan is to take it slow and try to slowly wake them up. It took me years, why should I expect any less from my wife and kids. If it doesn't go as planned, at least the kids will be adults if/when my wife chooses the Borg over me.
Thanks again,
Open Mind
the book study overseer hasn't asked why i won't come to the bookstudy, he gets .
be the month i stopped going to the k.h.
not going this week than it was about missing other meetings.. i told her that i would not be going to the meetings at all anymore.
Congratulations, OTWO!!!!!
I wish you the same final chapter as Ithinkisee. (Wife and kids totally out, awesome) That's the fantasy carrot I dangle in front of myself on bad days.
But, as a previous poster mentioned, you've gotta be ready for wherever "the ride" takes you.
Open Mind
ok, first off, please don't shoot the messenger here.
the dateline show on jws hiding pedophiles was one of several "defining moments" in my process of questioning "the truth".
it disgusted me.
Sneaking a few minutes B4 dub relatives show up. So I'll address posts in the order received.
Frannie: Thoughts on the "two-witness" rule. I think the best way to broach this to my wife would be the: "What if it was XXXXXX (our child)?" approach. See what you think of this possible dialogue:
Me: Man, I can't imagine how difficult it would be to know that "Brother" Scum-of-the-earth who raped our child is still in good standing in the congregation. I don't see why the organization doesn't just come forward with whatever they have on the guy and volunteer it to the authorities. Instead, we're going to have to make our child go through a bunch of interrogations in order to "maybe" get the DA to try and subpoena congregation files. If the organization really cares about our child, why aren't they more proactive?
How's that sound Frannie?
Mystla: I think, though I could be mistaken, that the "two-witness" rule meant that as long as the molestor never had two witnesses for any one event, he was off the hook as long as he kept flatly denying the charges. He could keep on molesting to his sick hearts content for years. Then, it was changed to the current policy that as long as there were two victims accusing him of separate events that that would qualify as "two witnesses". Only problem with that is it requires two victims B4 anything is done instead of just one.
I really like this part of your post Mystla:
no 6 y/o should have to "prove" their case before an elder body.. that's just demented. Have your wife put herself in that childs shoes while the elders ask where he or she was touched and how many times and did they "enjoy" it. This is what the police are for, they are trained to handle this, they have professionals who know how to help an abuse victim tell their side without further traumatising the kid. The elders should have no part in any of it once there has been an accusation. If they want to deal with the accused when the law is done with them... fine, but they should never question a child, they aren't qualified!
My wife is fully aware of the very limited "qualifications" of plenty of bonehead elders around here.
Now, for a moment, let me put on my Borg Apologist hat. As for digging up old files, let the families and/or victims that want to, come forward and ask for them. Some victims may not want them dug up. I'm sure the Borg will cooperate with anyone who asks for it. (Yeah right)
Hopefully she won't bring up that line of reasoning since I don't have any info showing that the Borg won't cooperate with a subpeona. Any dirt on the Borg currently refusing to cooperate with the courts?
Yesidid said:
So there is an admission that they used to cover up child abuse.
Well: Where is the written apology??????????
Blondie:
Your point on BOEs should call legal first and if not required by law, keep quiet. Also, elders aren't to encourage families to go to authorities. Here's how I might approach this one.
Me to wife: "Since molestation is such a horrible thing why doesn't the org take the high road of automatically turning it all in? Instead, they wait until their arms are twisted by Caesar. Elders should take the initiative to make families well aware that they can go to police with no reprisals. "
Blondie said:
Or the elders will tell them that religious sanctions will be brought against them if the family goes to the secular authorities.
I don't think that's CURRENT POLICY. Local Bozo BOEs may do that, but I've been told that's NOT current policy.
Best quote I can use from Blondie:
Finally, ask yourself, why are elders involving themselves in a felony criminal case? If you saw Brother Angry kill his wife or were fairly sure he had buried her in the backyard, should you tell the elders or the police? Some rank and file would say "tell the elders.
I LOVE THAT!!! Thanks Blondie.
NVRGNBK said:
And when you call Legal ( I know from personal first-hand experience) their main concern is: Is he/she interested in suing. Ah yes, so warm and compassionate! Makes me feel all warm and fuzzy just thinking about it.
Thanks NVR.
Me to wife: "An elder who called legal once told me.......... (rephrase what NVR said)
Scully:
RE: Pedophiles wandering at assemblies/conventions. It's troubling, for sure, and I think I'll bring that up just as a warning reminder (especially since we still have kids) and to add to the overall "yuck" factor of this blessed organization.
As for criticizing the policy, well, what are you suggesting? A scarlet "M" for molestors to wear at conventions? I'd like that, but my wife would say that would be too much of a "bad witness" for new ones to see. And we know how important it is for them to get on the road to "life". Same logic would apply to not calling them a "brother or sister". Wouldn't want to stumble new ones.
As for the congregation being kept in the dark, I like that one.
Me to wife: "How would you like to have a book study at our house and not be told that a child molestor is here. It sure would be nice if there was a policy that protected the friends better."
I hesitate to even type a word. Thank you for being willing to answer. I wouldn't wish what you and your wife have been through on anyone. And yet, sadly, it would almost take that to reach some dubs perhaps even including my wife. That's what I was talking about in an earlier reply about wishing I could give her a little "pain transfusion". If my wife could feel even a portion of what you've been through it would probably help. I'll try in some way to convey it. Just not sure how. Thanks again for sharing that with me.
And thanks again to all who have responded.
Please don't take any rebuttals on my part the wrong way. I'm just trying to make sure I've got my ducks in a row. As you know, if there's even a tiny thing wrong with my "facts" a desperate dub will be all over that and ignoring the rest.
Open Mind
ok, first off, please don't shoot the messenger here.
the dateline show on jws hiding pedophiles was one of several "defining moments" in my process of questioning "the truth".
it disgusted me.
I just got a chance to read all your replies and wanted to say a quick, sincere, THANK YOU for taking the time.
I don't have time this morning, (gotta go to the mtng for FS doncha know)but I'll digest what you've said and post a thoughtful (hopefully) reply as soon as I can.
For those who have revealed the pain you've gone through as victims, I thank you for doing that and my heart truly goes out to you. If I could somehow give a little bit of a "pain transfusion" from you to my wife, I think that would be helpful. I'm just trying to figure out the best way to do it and you've given me some good things to ponder.
Gotta go see how many people I can avoid infecting with the JW virus this morning. Bleccchh.
Trying to dig my family out of this sand hole called "the truth".
Open Mind
lawence sperry piloted and demonstrated the first auto-pilot controls for an aircraft in 1914, the same year that, according to the watchtower organization, god's kingdom took over automatic control of the heavens.. auto-pilot systems do not work well in turbulent conditions, and in our case, the spiritual auto-pilot that had kept us just gliding along without much thought from 1975 till the early 80's had to be cut off, and flight had to be controlled manually at about that time.
i was working for a group of witness 'brothers' then, striping cars and adding automotive aftermarket products for new car dealers.
the men i worked for were good people, but lousy businessmen.
Thanks Ak-Jeff. Keep 'em coming.
The life stories on this site really help lurkers (former lurker here) see how "those filthy 'postates" aren't just a bunch of misfit, crackpots who couldn't fit in.
I hope someday my wife & I can post our stories as well.
Open Mind
my name is rosie.
i'm 36, have 3 kids and was raised in the 'truth'.. since i was about 18 i realized that things weren't quite 'right' but stuck around mostly because my family is so much a part of it that if i left i'd have nobody.
i've been df'd 2 times...got reinstated the last time with the intention to just drift away after so that i could stay around my family and do my own thing.
Welcome Rosie!!!!!!!!
There's something here for everyone. And the beautiful thing is you can discuss pros and cons of various world views with people who understand your JW background. And you won't be judged.
I've been very impressed that even the Bible totin', Scripture quotin' Christians on this site, don't (usually) get on their holier-than-thou high horses around people with different beliefs.
What a refreshing change from the Watchtower World.
Open Mind
ok, first off, please don't shoot the messenger here.
the dateline show on jws hiding pedophiles was one of several "defining moments" in my process of questioning "the truth".
it disgusted me.
Oops, sorry Frannie.
I was prepping my reply to Arthur and didn't see your comments.
Thank you. That's a good point and is the sort of thing I was looking for.
Any ideas on a particularly good way to present that to my wife?
Open Mind
ok, first off, please don't shoot the messenger here.
the dateline show on jws hiding pedophiles was one of several "defining moments" in my process of questioning "the truth".
it disgusted me.
Thanks Arthur for the quick reply.
I think you're probably right about mainly just those personally affected leaving over the molestation issue.
I'm trying to implement what you said here:
I would try to help them see where the Watchtower Society has seriously strayed from Scripture (i.e. submission to an organization, legalism, false prophets, and Christ's headship). In short, I think that the best way is to help them see how the WTS's doctrinal structure is built upon a foundation of sand.
I'm chipping away here and there.
I really wish they had kept the two-witness rule totally in place. It would have been a great emotional sledge hammer. But, I think even the Borg knew that & back-pedaled just enough to keep most dubs asleep.
Any other thoughts out there?
Open Mind
